Ravi Lachhman: Well, Hey,
everybody, welcome back to
another episode of ShipTalk. I'm
very excited today to be talking
to James Bohrman who's the
founder of Cloudspeakers. For
those of you who don't know,
James, James actually started as
an emergency dispatch
technician, and actually jumped
into technology as a DevOps
engineer and an SRE. Even
working at a Continuous Delivery
firm. But James, for those of
you for those listeners who
don't know you, can you tell us
a little bit about yourself?
James Bohrman: Yeah, so I have a
background in SRE, I'm
neurodiverse, you know, I'm
actually on the autism spectrum.
And I've actually made a variety
of pivots. I started off when I
after I worked in DevOps for a
while, I ended up pivoting from
that and do content writing. And
that's where, you know, cloud
speakers actually blossom from,
and now I'm doing content
writing and creation for a
variety of industries, and
basically just storytelling.
Ravi Lachhman: Storytelling,
it's quite, it's quite an
important skill. I mean, it's,
I'll kind of take the listeners
back, I was thinking of a funny
title, what to call this podcast
and had the opportunity to talk
to you, I was gonna say, from
paramedic to production, but
being a paramedic is quite not
accurate. It's your emergency
dispatch, but but in your in
your background, and we can
start that I think is pretty,
pretty funny or not funny or
ironic that you are literally
getting calls for actual fires.
And in the DevOps world, and SRE
world, we're like, oh, we have
to go put on fires. But
literally, you were receiving
calls about fires, and having to
send people to actually put them
out. So when we talk about that,
what are some learnings you had
as maybe a stressful situation
as a dispatcher? And how does
that how does that play into
your DevOps and SRE roles that
you had?
James Bohrman: A lot of very
interesting ways, communication
skills, most of all, I think
working as a dispatch operator,
definitely helps me communicate
with other people a lot better.
You know, one thing I learned
dealing with high stress
situations, you know, there were
times where I would all you
know, I would call people and,
as you said, you know, their
houses would be in the process
of burning down. And I think
that, that really taught me to
learn to listen to people, as
opposed to try to talk to
people. Because, you know, in
situations like, when, you know,
you can't really there's not
much you can really say to so to
calm them down when their house
is burning down. And a lot of
times, you can say too much. And
that's one thing, you know, just
listening to someone, letting
them vent letting them talk
about their frustrations, and
just telling them things are
gonna be okay. Is that that I
mean, obviously, that doesn't
translate directly over into
DevOps. But just just the
general concept of being a good
listener, has always been a very
beneficial trait.
Ravi Lachhman: Yeah, that's
very, very, very helpful. And
it's a trait that's actually
really hard, you know, when
people ask you for help, and
this is, I've been going through
this journey, too. When if I'm
getting asked for help, or an
opinion, I would immediately
starts kind of spewing
everything that knows like, Oh,
yes, do this, this and this.
You're like, I didn't do this
step. And then I got burned here
before. But that the art of
listening, it's really
important, right? Like in sales
training, or I spent some time
in sales in my background, the
ability to listen to people like
first you kind of understand
where they're coming from, is
pretty critical. I like I said,
if I call them said my house is
burning down, I didn't want you
to it's really ironic if you
kept talking to me, like, Oh,
yes, put some water on it. But
Oh, yeah. That's so funny. And
it made me help draw a parallel
to being in DevOps is a
movement, right? So there's no
like one DevOps product or
DevOps switch. And a lot of
times that it the rationale
behind why a firm will invest in
DevOps is because there's so
much pain, right? It's like, Oh,
well, our developers are gonna
storm off or we're not, we're
losing productivity because
we're not agile enough. And a
lot of times, and you know,
looking kind of at your
background as you start as a new
DevOps engineer, how about you
walk through the process of I'm
a brand new DevOps engineer,
what would be some of the first
steps that you took, you know,
when parachuting into an
organization?
James Bohrman: Oh, that's a
that's an interesting question.
I definitely think yes. Asking
questions. But listening is
important. Taking being able to
take feedback. You know,
interacting with peers is hard.
And I definitely think it's
important as a new engineer, to
be able to ask as many questions
as you can, you know, just be
able to be a sponge, by being
the sponge and soak up as much
information as you can. And, you
know, I don't think that's that
people. It's a bit of a gray
area, you know, whether you
should be like, doing learning
on your own time. But you know,
if that's something you want to
do, you know, that can never
hurt you.
Ravi Lachhman: Yeah, absolutely.
And having the ability to, it's
always that people think that
you know, as a kid, you learn as
a sponge. And then the older you
get, you know, that spunge is
less absorbent as time goes on,
but in especially in it in newer
fields, like being a DevOps
engineer, as an SRE, there are a
lot of emerging practices. And
so you just have to sit there
and learn and draw on your draw
on your expertise. Another
question for you, James. So for
folks who are just maybe getting
into technology for the first
time, maybe, how do you how did
you go from an emergency
dispatch technician to a DevOps
engineer? Like it seems that's,
I mean, for me, that would be a
really far jump, but I'm curious
to hear your story and hopefully
inspire others who are
listening.
James Bohrman: So a lot of what
I did was, so I ended up self
educating a lot with
Linuxacademy.com, you know, a
lot of the resources that are
available out there now. And I
think the biggest thing that
shoot me forward was my blog.
Which is a lot of why I continue
to block these days. And, you
know, I've been doing that for
time. But my blogging is one
thing that really started
getting noticed, and has gotten
me quite a few job opportunities
these days. That's okay. I don't
think I don't think you know, I
definitely am of the opinion
that people should blog if
they're passionate about it, but
I don't think it can ever hurt.
Ravi Lachhman: And that's a
very, very good point, right?
Like,how I like how I learned is
actually by teaching, there's
just like a German word for it
like learner, I'm going to mess
it up. What the learning there
sounds like the word learn. In
German, it's basically how I
learned is by teaching other
people. So if I put myself in
their positions, like if I have
to learn this, I should be able
to teach it back. Kind of
structures how I learn in a
certain way. Not sure if that's
Blogging?
James Bohrman: Oh, yeah. I mean,
yeah, there's, you know,
blogging isn't the only way of
doing things these days, you
know, I know the, you know, I'm,
I'm 28 now, and, you know, it
seems like the younger Gen Z
crowd is all about Twitch
Streaming. And, and, you know,
like, YouTube, creating YouTube
videos. And, you know, there's,
there's all I think there's all
kinds of ways to create content,
and learn while you're creating
content.
Ravi Lachhman: For perfect.
Another harder thing to answer
is something that it's it I
think, I think you would have
probably one of the best answers
out there is, as an engineer,
your accomplishments don't
follow you around, right? And so
going firm to firm. I'll give
you an example. A lot of what I
worked on out of university was
in the federal space, no one
will ever see it unless you go
to jail.
James Bohrman: Interesting.
Ravi Lachhman: No one really
knew who Ravi Lachhman is,
right? my resume might tell a
story. But if you were to Google
it, you will read about my love
of Zaxby's. I really like that's
true. I know there's a Zaxby's
where you live. So you know. I
just love fried chicken. And but
building a brand is important.
And I think that you're doing it
fairly well as that you were
able to build a brand to get
recognized to get into your
first set of technology roles
and furthering your technology
career, but maybe you can talk
about how does the average
person even start building a
brand and is it worth it or is
it not worth it?
James Bohrman: I 100% believe it
is worth it. There was a I'm
trying to remember the person's
name, the person who gave first
gave me the top gave me the
importance of building a brand
was someone from here in
Knoxville. I can't remember his
twitter or his name. But it was
a talk here in Knoxville at the
KnoxDev community. And this was
right now is really starting,
and he talked about the
importance of building your
brand. And I definitely think,
you know, it's like you said,
you know, your accomplishments
don't follow you, from company
to company, but your brand does
and who you are, and that kind
of stuff. Do you know, your
personal projects, your blogs,
and stuff like that, like, you
know, the Gist that I that I, if
you've probably seen my Gist
before, for those who don't
know, I have a Gist of all, all
the blogs that I've created for
a long period of time. And that
follows me everywhere. You know,
that allows me, I think that's
important to have things that
follow you from company to, from
company to company that are, I
guess, company agnostic.
Ravi Lachhman: Yeah, perfect,
perfect. And that's important,
right? Like that's, you know,
especially with that helping
build a community or being
standing out in a community, or
even standing out in a huge pool
of applicants that for any type
of job. It's just that Yeah, I
like how you summarize that,
like your brand follows you
around.
A different part of your
background. So for those who
don't know, James, will James
mentioned in the beginning of
the podcast that James is
actually neurodiverse. And so
I'm very fortunate to talk to
you, you're probably one of the
first, you're actually the first
neurodiverse person who's been
on the podcast. And just for the
listeners out there, let's say
for those who are on either side
of that pendulum. Let's talk
about how you in the technology
world, how can we get engaged
with more neurodiverse people?
And how can we be engaging in
your opinion? And also, how can
folks who are neurodiverse if
they're aspiring to the
technology, what are some first
James Bohrman: Um, I think it's
very important for companies to
steps they can take?
embrace different minds. That is
100%, the first step to
attracting neurodiverse talent.
You know, we talked a little bit
about it at the beginning of the
podcast. I think it's important
for anyone to not even just in
the tech world, for anyone who
has someone who is autistic in
their lives, you know, a problem
I see. With a lot of, you know,
obviously, me being autistic, I
view people's interactions with
autistic people differently. And
there's this trope, you know, a
thing I see a lot with parents
of autistic children, is, this
is kind of interesting, a little
off topic. But a thing I see is
that parents of autistic
children have this mentality
that their kids are always going
to get their autistic children
are always going to be children.
And I think that that,
inherently is why parents need
to see content by people who are
on the spectrum, as opposed to,
you know, hearing from people
who are just friends or, you
know, interacting with people
who are autistic. And I think
that looping back is why it's
important for companies to talk
to and hear from autistic minds,
or neurodiverse minds, not even
ust thought it's, I mean, this
his relates to like DiD, you k
ow, bipolar, you know, any n
urodiverse, you know, mental he
lth issue, and I think it's im
ortant that companies hear fr
m those people who are st
uggling with that, as opposed to
just hearing like a doctor sa
this or something.
Ravi Lachhman: Yeah, perfect. I
mean, it's one thing to be
empathetic but also it's it's
what building software or like
building anything, it's, the
more I say points of view that
you get across or that you come
across, it's that makes things
better for the collective good.
As let's say that some folks
might be this is for some
neurodiverse folks, if you're
listening to the podcast if you
want to get technology for the
first time. What were some, you
mentioned that you did a lot of
self learning and a lot of
online. resources. But is there
any other specific advice you
might give someone who's
starting out, you know, say in
their, to their technology
journey?
James Bohrman: The advice I
probably give to neurodiverse
people is probably embrace in
embracing your neurodiversity,
as I wouldn't say embracing it
as part of your brain, because
not everyone is comfortable with
that. So it's not that that's
not always the advice I would
give. But, you know, I would say
embrace your passions, you know,
because one thing that really
helped me was, you know, when I,
I, one thing about me is I hyper
fixate a lot, you know, and
that's one of my very positive
traits of being neurodiverse is
that, you know, I will hyper
fixate on a task, and I will not
deviate until that task is done.
And I guess, on that topic is
is, is the answer to that
question is embrace the, your
neurodiverse traits, you know,
ecause there are a lot of
eople, I think a lot of people
ove to tell, focus and focus on
eurodiverse person's negative
raits, but never give credit to
he positive traits.
Ravi Lachhman: And that's, I
think that's excellent advice,
right? Like, anyway, like, you
know, embrace your strengths.
Even if it's, some people might
view it as a weakness, if it's
to be your strength, how you
learn and that know, to your
point, your ability to hyper
fixated, something gives you a
lot more drive to come to a
conclusion, versus maybe someone
like me who's like, yeah, give
up.
Thank you so much for that very
candid and very personal,
personal stories and advice.
Shifting gears now to
storytelling. How do you tell a
good story? So So James is a
writer, like myself a funny
background, James used to work
for a competitor. You know,
actually, James and I would have
been enemies. If, you know,
months ago, but we're not we're
buds right? So we can look past
that. But how do you tell a good
story? And why is storytelling
so important to technology? I
know this is very abstract
question, but the you're right
guy to answer the question that.
James Bohrman: I think telling a
good story. Definitely. It from
the company perspective, we're
involved involves, you know,
empathizing, and getting
yourself in the customers shoes.
And I think it's important to
just because, I mean, if you
don't have people don't hear you
hear your about your product
from other customers
perspective. I mean, then it's
all just marketing at that
point.
Ravi Lachhman: And I think it's
the art of storytelling that I
think we're touching on but it's
making something credible,
right, it's one thing you know,
one person say that is
completely the other thing, you
know, like multiple people are
saying it's like, oh, they might
be onto something you know, it's
always as a human a skeptic.
Well other humans said it. Not
just the system once was saying
that. Um, let's see. If going
back to your, your blogging
days, how what's the easiest
way? So let's say someone's
listening to this podcast, and
they've never blogged in their
entire life, and it's something
I've picked up on a few years
ago. But from another
perspective, how does somebody
in the technology world as an
engineer start blogging if they
want to start blogging?
James Bohrman: That's a big this
is just my my stickler response
because I see so much that it's
install the Grammarly pro
plugin.
Ravi Lachhman: Yeah, my boss
definitely gave me that he's
like, you're gonna get
Grammarly. So, for those of you
don't know what Grammarly is,
it's a it's a it's a tool.
Basically, not only does it
check your spelling, it checks
your usage and the checks. Are
you following certain syntax
rules are you following
following certain complicated
grammatical rules. I like to put
commas a lot of places that
don't belong. So Grammarly will
pick up on that.
James Bohrman: But I have more
of direct, like a more practical
advice, I'd say. I think it's
important that, you know,
finding the right niche, you
know, finding the right platform
niche, or being able to
distribute and find your tone,
find your voice, and finding the
voice that fits you. Obviously,
grammar is important, but so is,
you know, finding the right tone
that fits fits your voice and
brand.
Ravi Lachhman: I think that
comes with time, but you might
not have it the first day. But
yeah, would you advice the kind
of stick at it if someone was
starting?
James Bohrman: Yeah, just Yeah,
yeah, just stick out. Uh, you
know, it might not look perfect
right away, you know, but I
think my advice for that would
be, you know, blog, because it's
something you're passionate
about it because we're trying to
develop something else. If that
makes sense.
Ravi Lachhman: That makes sense.
Sometimes blogs be self serving,
sometimes you can serve in the
public. So finding that right
balance.
I have one more question for
you. And it's, it's an intrinsic
question. And I always ask all
the guests of the podcast kind
of like the same question at the
end of the podcast. So let's
say, take it back. 10 years ago,
let's say you're walking down
the main streets of Knoxville,
Tennessee, and you ran into an
18 year old version of yourself.
Right? It was the current
rendition of yourself, what
would be any advice you would
tell? A younger James, it could
be any set of advice that you
would tell your younger self?
James Bohrman: Oh, that's a
great question. I would probably
tell myself younger question
myself, to not overthink so much
that everything was going to
work itself out in time. And
that to just enjoy my youth a
little bit more.
Ravi Lachhman: Awesome. Yeah.
Great. Great, great advice. Once
youth is gone, youth is gone. So
James, thank you so much for
being on the podcast. I really
enjoyed your time here. I'm sure
listeners love your insight onto
many different aspects of tech
and non tech world. So yeah,
James, thank you so much for
being on the podcast.
James Bohrman: You're welcome.
That is definitely a pleasure.
Ravi Lachhman: Cheers,
everybody.